124thATC issues with the latest Navigraph data maybe?

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Duke748
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:50 pm

124thATC issues with the latest Navigraph data maybe?

Post by Duke748 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:05 pm

Hi

124thATC has behaved pretty well for me since I first started using it but over the last few flights things have gone wrong and I don't know why.

I flew from Newcastle (EGNT) to Exeter (EGTE), a flight I've done many times. At the north side of the Bristol Channel I'm at FL240 and ATC hands me over to Exeter Approach as usual. Then I'm told to fly south crossing the Exeter NDB but there are no descent vectors. I'm still at FL240 and continue heading south until I'm almost in French control territory. I then decide to do my own thing and head back north and descend to an altitude that will get me on the ILS approach at Exeter. 124thATC is still insisting that I head south and climb back to FL240. Eventually 124thATC seems to catch up and I get vectors to the ILS approach and land the plane.

Same thing happens on my return trip to Newcastle. Normally I'm vectored to descend to FL160 at the start of the STAR pattern. This didn't happen and I was still at FL250 when I should have been at 9000'. I've been so confident of the altitude vectors that I tend to program them in in advance (usually in the latest Zibo 737-800 but this happened in the X-Crafts E-175 as well).

I reinstalled 124thATC (version 2.0-a60) but I'm still getting the same issues. I rely on 124thATC to give me a great sim experience (I fell out with VATSIM a long time ago and might actually have been banned). Long story which I won't bore you with.

Just wondering if there was something in the new Navigraph AIRAC cycle that might have caused this as I'm struggling to think of anything else that has changed since 124thATC was last working as it should?

Duke748
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:50 pm

Re: 124thATC issues with the latest Navigraph data maybe?

Post by Duke748 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:27 am

Just a quick update. Returning back to Newcastle from Exeter the 124thATC select STAR screen came up and I clicked on POL1N and then XP froze for several seconds and crashed to desktop. This is the relevant bit of the log file:

124thATC v2.0-a60 09:17:59: STAR 1 POL1N, runway 07, selected by user
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: Entering FlightPlan Backup status function
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: Entering FlightPlan Backup status function
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding EXMOR - 51.178612 -3.359722
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding NUMPO - 51.610001 -3.283611
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding BCN - 51.725555 -3.263056
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding DIKAS - 51.776943 -3.259167
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding NAVOV - 51.808613 -3.256944
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding GOGIG - 51.891666 -3.250556
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding TOPRO - 51.911667 -3.249167
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding TALGA - 51.958332 -3.245556
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding UMOLO - 52.134167 -3.232500
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding NITON - 52.553333 -3.200278
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding NOKIN - 53.076668 -2.882778
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding KUXEM - 53.253056 -2.679722
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding BARTN - 53.470554 -2.428056
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding POL - 53.743889 -2.103333
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType: Entering SearchNavType...for GOKOV
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType: Searching close to the previous waypoint 53.743889/-2.103333
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType: SearchNavType: Try to find: GOKOV near lat 53.743889 and lon -2.103333
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType DEBUG: SearchNavType: 5 chars waypoint, searching as FIX...
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType: SearchNavType: found GOKOV at lat/lon 54.139999/-1.867369, (navType: 512)
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding GOKOV - 54.139999 -1.867369
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType: Entering SearchNavType...for IRKOR
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType: Searching close to the previous waypoint 54.139999/-1.867369
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType: SearchNavType: Try to find: IRKOR near lat 54.139999 and lon -1.867369
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType DEBUG: SearchNavType: 5 chars waypoint, searching as FIX...
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType: SearchNavType: found IRKOR at lat/lon 54.404270/-1.784442, (navType: 512)
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding IRKOR - 54.404270 -1.784442
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType: Entering SearchNavType...for XODRU
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType: Searching close to the previous waypoint 54.404270/-1.784442
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType: SearchNavType: Try to find: XODRU near lat 54.404270 and lon -1.784442
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType DEBUG: SearchNavType: 5 chars waypoint, searching as FIX...
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType: SearchNavType: found XODRU at lat/lon 54.535484/-1.742861, (navType: 512)
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding XODRU - 54.535484 -1.742861
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType: Entering SearchNavType...for ETSES
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType: Searching close to the previous waypoint 54.535484/-1.742861
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType: SearchNavType: Try to find: ETSES near lat 54.535484 and lon -1.742861
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType DEBUG: SearchNavType: 5 chars waypoint, searching as FIX...
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: findNavType: SearchNavType: found ETSES at lat/lon 54.699192/-1.690592, (navType: 512)
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding ETSES - 54.699192 -1.690592
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: Entering FMS Programming (processing 18 fixes)
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS cleared, entries now: 0
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: Programming FMS Departure Runway
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: Programming FMS Arrival Runway
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: Entering unknow FMS type (NavType 0) - (index, lat, lon, FL): 18, 54.699192, -1.690592, 25000 ETSES
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: Programing XPLMSetDisplayedFMSEntry to 11 (fp/FMS: KUXEM KUXEM)
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: Programming FMS XPLMSetDestinationFMSEntry fix to 11
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 1/20: EGTE
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 2/20: EXMOR
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 3/20: NUMPO
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 4/20: BCN
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 5/20: DIKAS
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 6/20: NAVOV
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 7/20: GOGIG
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 8/20: TOPRO
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 9/20: TALGA
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 10/20: UMOLO
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 11/20: NITON
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 12/20: NOKIN
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 13/20: KUXEM
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 14/20: BARTN
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 15/20: POL
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 16/20: +54 -2
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 17/20: +54 -2
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 18/20: +55 -2
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 19/20: +55 -2
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS fix 20/20: EGNT
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: SetILSPath Enter
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: DEBUG: SetILSPath - using last fix point as entry point
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: SetILSPath - Set path from an entry of: Lat 54.699192 Lon -1.690592
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: SetILSPath - SetILSPath GetDistance to: 07.
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: SetILSPath - TargetRunwayStructName 07 On 55.042934 -1.670908
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: SetILSPath Downwind 23645
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: Rwy Lat 55.033562 Lon -1.706333
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: SetILSPath ILS entered: Lat 6935380796960437878080122446409548589613417442974670487829491211331945518434703779999776267618632956066896482596440385119783186653231554924787551101238388666420115018488655438620435114003323430465470214341007399391349884544360418321789149303688155627520.000000 Lon 235846503856736907875360729235672224808351045744583745300889972416305031439444067950337853135002023831287177014047558670611683346203493063279929324456928877673134460357414832803392600382254619201307750653653749813673671953273495393076193548868266229760.000000
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding ILS - inf inf
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: AddToFlightPlan: Adding Runway 07 - 55.033562 -1.706333
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: Entering FMS Programming (processing 20 fixes)
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: FMS cleared, entries now: 0
124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: Programming FMS Departure Runway
--=={This application has crashed because of the plugin: 124thATC v2.0-a60}==--
(Art controls are modified.)

ntnll
Posts: 593
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 12:32 pm

Re: 124thATC issues with the latest Navigraph data maybe?

Post by ntnll » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:18 pm

Duke748 wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:05 pm
Hi

124thATC has behaved pretty well for me since I first started using it but over the last few flights things have gone wrong and I don't know why.

I flew from Newcastle (EGNT) to Exeter (EGTE), a flight I've done many times. At the north side of the Bristol Channel I'm at FL240 and ATC hands me over to Exeter Approach as usual. Then I'm told to fly south crossing the Exeter NDB but there are no descent vectors. I'm still at FL240 and continue heading south until I'm almost in French control territory. I then decide to do my own thing and head back north and descend to an altitude that will get me on the ILS approach at Exeter. 124thATC is still insisting that I head south and climb back to FL240. Eventually 124thATC seems to catch up and I get vectors to the ILS approach and land the plane.

Same thing happens on my return trip to Newcastle. Normally I'm vectored to descend to FL160 at the start of the STAR pattern. This didn't happen and I was still at FL250 when I should have been at 9000'. I've been so confident of the altitude vectors that I tend to program them in in advance (usually in the latest Zibo 737-800 but this happened in the X-Crafts E-175 as well).

I reinstalled 124thATC (version 2.0-a60) but I'm still getting the same issues. I rely on 124thATC to give me a great sim experience (I fell out with VATSIM a long time ago and might actually have been banned). Long story which I won't bore you with.

Just wondering if there was something in the new Navigraph AIRAC cycle that might have caused this as I'm struggling to think of anything else that has changed since 124thATC was last working as it should?
Hi mate,
what the flight information OSD show in regarding the flight plan fixes and their FL? Can you have a look into that and take a screenshot?
124thATC Developer

Duke748
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:50 pm

Re: 124thATC issues with the latest Navigraph data maybe?

Post by Duke748 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:00 am

Hi Antonello

Thanks for the reply but I'm not sure what you mean by OSD? I don't enter flight levels for individual fixes into 124thATC. I just enter the cruise level. So my flight plan that I paste into 124th looks like this for the EGTE to EGNT route:

EXMOR NUMPO BCN DIKAS NAVOV GOGIG TOPRO TALGA UMOLO NITON NOKIN KUXEM BARTN POL

When I'm prompted by ATC to select a STAR, before I get to POL, I choose POL1N and also enter this in the aircraft FMS/FMC. What used to happen is 124thATC would ask me to descend to the appropriate FL during the STAR legs but this isn't happening now. So I end up at the end of the STAR (ETSES) at my cruise altitude.

At ETSES I used to be vectored west, then north (descending to 3,500' or so), then north east to head towards the ILS localiser. Now I get to ETSES and I'm vectored south (178 degrees) for some reason. There's a line in the Nav Display on the plane going thousands of NM south which doesn't seem right.

I think it might be something to do with this 124thATC entry in the log.txt file:

124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: SetILSPath ILS entered: Lat 6935380796960437878080122446409548589613417442974670487829491211331945518434703779999776267618632956066896482596440385119783186653231554924787551101238388666420115018488655438620435114003323430465470214341007399391349884544360418321789149303688155627520.000000 Lon 235846503856736907875360729235672224808351045744583745300889972416305031439444067950337853135002023831287177014047558670611683346203493063279929324456928877673134460357414832803392600382254619201307750653653749813673671953273495393076193548868266229760.000000

This doesn't look at all correct and I'm not sure where 124thATC is picking it up from? The same thing is happening when I go from Newcastle to Exeter. Again no descent vectors and the same vector south for thousands of NM.

Brunlea
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 6:24 pm

Re: 124thATC issues with the latest Navigraph data maybe?

Post by Brunlea » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:32 am

I'm getting a vector added to my flight plan taking me hundreds of miles south also when flying to that airport and EGNM. I'm using the latest 124th with the current Navigraph data 11.50+ (Using X-Plane 11.51 Beta 1 actually).

scooke
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: 124thATC issues with the latest Navigraph data maybe?

Post by scooke » Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:19 pm

Hi,

So, I decided to take on Duke748's Exeter to Newcastle flight using his exact flight plan. I flew the Zibo 737-800.
My navdata is updated to the latest cycle.
I was intrigued by Duke748 experience of being prompted for the STAR because I have NOT seen that myself.
Once airborne, I programmed the POL1N STAR into the FMC.
Once I reached the last waypoint POL, 124th ATC gave me a runway based on wind direction.
I was never prompted to select a STAR.
Then they told me to descend right down to 3000 ft after I passed ETSES. But I must admit that I ignored vector instructions
and continued on heading 070 & descended to 3000 feet, turned left & intercepted the ILS and landed the aircraft.

It looks like there is something wrong with Duke748's flight. But I have no explanation what the problem is.
Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Steve
Last edited by scooke on Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Duke748
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:50 pm

Re: 124thATC issues with the latest Navigraph data maybe?

Post by Duke748 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:43 pm

Thanks for testing Steve, much appreciated. I don't tend to enter the STAR until I'm advised to do so by 124thATC but maybe that's where I'm going wrong. I fly the Zibo 737 as well, by the way.

I'll try entering the STAR in the Zibo FMC before I get any vectors next time and see what happens. Were you given bearing vectors from ETSES? I'm currently told to head 178 degrees which is in the opposite direction to the airport. If I look at the ATC dialogue it says it's heading towards the *ILS waypoint.

I'm wondering if this has something to do with the UK using the same ILS frequency for both ends of the runways??? If I fly elsewhere (Amsterdam, Malmo, Brussels etc.) all seems to be fine

scooke
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: 124thATC issues with the latest Navigraph data maybe?

Post by scooke » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:31 pm

Hi,

Apologies, I meant to say that I have NOT been given a list of STARs to choose from. I have edited my post to change to what I meant to say.
I don't know if entering the STAR in the FMC makes a difference.
Yes, I was given vectors from ETSES. But I can't remember what they were because I was fixated on flying in the opposite direction of RWY 25 i.e. 070 & then turning into the final.
I know that 124th inserts approximation fixes by itself that it will direct you to when you have picked the RWY for landing. But I've always ignored them & just direct myself to the IAF for the runway, fly the approach & land.
Maybe I should do the flight again & pay attention to the instructions!

I did notice something about the ILS that I suspect is only happening with the Zibo 737 only(I think). When I'm flying into an airport for the very first time, the ILS picked up is for the opposite runway to the one that I'm landing on because they're both on the the same frequency, most of the time. This has happened to me at US airports which is where I fly most of the time. So, my landings have been "messy". But after 1 visit to the airport, all subsequent landingd have been fine & I can just use the APP button to guide me in.
There are some who suggest that disabling downwind ILSes in the map tool in X-Plane will make a difference. But I haven't noticed anything & in any case I believe the approach selection in the map tool is just to display the aircraft & doesn't affect the flight itself.

Cheers,

Steve

Duke748
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:50 pm

Re: 124thATC issues with the latest Navigraph data maybe?

Post by Duke748 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:06 am

Hi Steve

Hopefully Antonello will get this sorted. I'm fairly convinced that it's an ILS frequency issue as there are probably several in the UK which use the same frequency as Newcastle (111.50). I think 124thATC is getting EGNT mixed up with another airport, hence the instruction to turn to heading 178. Probably explains the lack of descent instructions as well because 124thATC still thinks that I'm miles away from my destination. I'm working around the issue by manually requesting lower cruise altitudes as I approach the airport but it'd be nice to have it fixed properly.

Brunlea seems to be having a similar issue with another UK airport.

Cheers
Nick C

Brunlea
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 6:24 pm

Re: 124thATC issues with the latest Navigraph data maybe?

Post by Brunlea » Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:16 am

Cheers Nick C for your responses. I've just done a flight in Florida and it again gives me the 0.0 waypoint taking me miles away. I'm back using 11.50 final using the latest Navdata after doing my overdue fresh computer/x-plane reinstall.
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ntnll
Posts: 593
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 12:32 pm

Re: 124thATC issues with the latest Navigraph data maybe?

Post by ntnll » Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:12 am

Duke748 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:00 am
Hi Antonello

Thanks for the reply but I'm not sure what you mean by OSD? I don't enter flight levels for individual fixes into 124thATC. I just enter the cruise level. So my flight plan that I paste into 124th looks like this for the EGTE to EGNT route:

EXMOR NUMPO BCN DIKAS NAVOV GOGIG TOPRO TALGA UMOLO NITON NOKIN KUXEM BARTN POL

When I'm prompted by ATC to select a STAR, before I get to POL, I choose POL1N and also enter this in the aircraft FMS/FMC. What used to happen is 124thATC would ask me to descend to the appropriate FL during the STAR legs but this isn't happening now. So I end up at the end of the STAR (ETSES) at my cruise altitude.

At ETSES I used to be vectored west, then north (descending to 3,500' or so), then north east to head towards the ILS localiser. Now I get to ETSES and I'm vectored south (178 degrees) for some reason. There's a line in the Nav Display on the plane going thousands of NM south which doesn't seem right.

I think it might be something to do with this 124thATC entry in the log.txt file:

124thATC v2.0-a60 09:18:00: SetILSPath ILS entered: Lat 6935380796960437878080122446409548589613417442974670487829491211331945518434703779999776267618632956066896482596440385119783186653231554924787551101238388666420115018488655438620435114003323430465470214341007399391349884544360418321789149303688155627520.000000 Lon 235846503856736907875360729235672224808351045744583745300889972416305031439444067950337853135002023831287177014047558670611683346203493063279929324456928877673134460357414832803392600382254619201307750653653749813673671953273495393076193548868266229760.000000

This doesn't look at all correct and I'm not sure where 124thATC is picking it up from? The same thing is happening when I go from Newcastle to Exeter. Again no descent vectors and the same vector south for thousands of NM.
Hi mate,
I'm speaking about the "flight information" osd info you can get on screen, it can help debugging. Also in the plugin folder you can have a look to the google maps files that have been created with your flight path. I suppose that can be an issue in parsing the frequencies, as suggested. I'll do some tests, thanks guys for report it.
124thATC Developer

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