Not getting takeoff clearance at LPPT

Any problem or bug related to 124thATC
SHaneD
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:26 pm

Not getting takeoff clearance at LPPT

Post by SHaneD » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:34 pm

I tried to fly from LPPT to LPPR but was unable to get takeoff clearance from 124th, I'd been using RC30 and before that RC27, so I have been through all 4 renditions 27,28,29 & 30 just to make sure I hadn't missed anything, I also checked out both ends of the main runway, and it's the same from 03 or 21,I think I may have found a problem, the airport LPPT has a tower frequency of 118.100, I checked the apt file of the airport I'm using and it says 54 11810 TWR, as expected from the checking out I've done about LPPT but 124th seems to see the frequency as towerFrequency found: '11895', I can't see where 124th is getting this number from as when I investigated via WED 118.10 is the frequency set for the TWR.
bugReport.7z
124th data.jpg
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SHaneD
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:26 pm

Re: Not getting takeoff clearance at LPPT

Post by SHaneD » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:51 pm

Just had the idea to check the default airport so I removed the airport I'd been using and what do you know the default has the tower frequency of 118.95, and it's the same as the clearance delivery frequency, so it looks like 124th is not reading the apt file in the custom scenery folder for at least this airport.
freq.jpg
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jgplarnold
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:22 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Not getting takeoff clearance at LPPT

Post by jgplarnold » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:44 am

I have posted in a separate thread that it appears that 124thATC HAS PROBLEMS when two different ATC 'types' have the same frequency.
It also happens when the DELIVERY and GROUND ATC 'types' have the same frequency.

Exactly what are all the frequencies and ATC 'types' in the customer scenery APT.DAT file? Do ALL the different ATC 'types' have different frequencies in the APT.DAT file?

Using the frequencies displayed for LPPT in my version of XP (11.3) the last few lines of the APT.DAT should look something like the following -

50 12415 LPPT ATIS
52 11895 LISBON GROUND CLD
53 12175 LISBON GND
54 11810 LISBON TWR
55 11910 LISBON APP

Can you modify the APT.DAT file for your custom scenery to be as above (make a BACKUP first).

Is the custom scenery you are using freeware? If so please advise the name of the file you downloaded and I will have a look.

ntnll
Posts: 357
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 12:32 pm

Re: Not getting takeoff clearance at LPPT

Post by ntnll » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:47 am

jgplarnold wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:44 am
I have posted in a separate thread that it appears that 124thATC HAS PROBLEMS when two different ATC 'types' have the same frequency.
It also happens when the DELIVERY and GROUND ATC 'types' have the same frequency.

Exactly what are all the frequencies and ATC 'types' in the customer scenery APT.DAT file? Do ALL the different ATC 'types' have different frequencies in the APT.DAT file?

Using the frequencies displayed for LPPT in my version of XP (11.3) the last few lines of the APT.DAT should look something like the following -

50 12415 LPPT ATIS
52 11895 LISBON GROUND CLD
53 12175 LISBON GND
54 11810 LISBON TWR
55 11910 LISBON APP

Can you modify the APT.DAT file for your custom scenery to be as above (make a BACKUP first).

Is the custom scenery you are using freeware? If so please advise the name of the file you downloaded and I will have a look.
The issue is definitely caused by the apt.dat configuration, as jgplarnold correctly stated.
If anybody can remember me any scenery having this issue I'll have a look into it and I'll try to write a work around for that.
But I'm here to say, that even if I can see the point to mark two entities with the same frequency (one frequency serving two different functionality), I believe the correct way to configure the apt.dat is to UNSET the not existing entities, and define only the available frequencies. Is implicit that the missing functionality will be eventually provided by the available entities (Tower).
The facts that this issue occurs ONLY on not default scenarios suggests I'm on the same page of Laminar, and the error is the practice to assign an identical frequency to more entities. I'll probably write a work around for that, even if I should not, for sake of the user experience.
124thATC Developer

SHaneD
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:26 pm

Re: Not getting takeoff clearance at LPPT

Post by SHaneD » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:11 am

The airport I'm using is called "LPPT no static tdg" it's freeware from the.org

and looking into the scenery package there is no APT.DAT file in the package !

these were from the apt file created after I'd saved the airport in WED

50 12415 ATIS
53 12175 GND
52 11895 CLR
54 11810 TWR
55 11910 APP

just a point, I did try searching the forum first but the search engine keeps telling me the words I'm searching for are too common words, it's tricky to search about frequency's if the search engine wont let use the word frequency :?:

ntnll
Posts: 357
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 12:32 pm

Re: Not getting takeoff clearance at LPPT

Post by ntnll » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:57 am

SHaneD wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:11 am
The airport I'm using is called "LPPT no static tdg" it's freeware from the.org

and looking into the scenery package there is no APT.DAT file in the package !

these were from the apt file created after I'd saved the airport in WED

50 12415 ATIS
53 12175 GND
52 11895 CLR
54 11810 TWR
55 11910 APP

just a point, I did try searching the forum first but the search engine keeps telling me the words I'm searching for are too common words, it's tricky to search about frequency's if the search engine wont let use the word frequency :?:
Hi Shane,
can you temporarily remove your custom scenery and tell me if you face the same issue without it, using the default scenery?

a.
124thATC Developer

SHaneD
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:26 pm

Re: Not getting takeoff clearance at LPPT

Post by SHaneD » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:55 pm

I will have to do that later today, off to work now !

jgplarnold
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:22 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Not getting takeoff clearance at LPPT

Post by jgplarnold » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:54 am

Shane , the 'experience' you are having seems very strange.
When I check the 'comms' frequencies using the XP stock scenery and then after installing LPPT no static tdg they are exactly the same (as would be expected as there is NO APT.DAT file in the custom scenery folder, yet you indicate you have different frequencies. I have included screen shots from that part of the screen with stock scenery and with LPPT no static tdg installed for you to see. And the LPPT no static tdg scenery WAS installed correctly as I see the 'marshaller' and what looks like a bus in front of the aircraft (and lots more airport scenery) with LPPT no static tdg installed. VERY STRANGE.
Maybe something else you have installed is causing the problem OR some problem with the XP stock scenery (to check that you could REMOVE the European scenery using the XP installer and then put it back. Although I would do that as a last resort.
Maybe there is another custom scenery installed when also has an APT.DAT file containing LPPT?

Shane I too get frustrated doing searches and geiing too common words. I have tried all different words and get the same result.

BTW I have found a custom scenery which DOES an APT.DAT file containing two different ATC 'types' and with the same frequency. It is named YSCB tdg and is available at the XP ORG web site (search for "YSCB Canberra International Airport 1.0").
lisbon comms stock scenery.jpg
lisbon comms LPPT no static tdg.jpg
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SHaneD
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:26 pm

Re: Not getting takeoff clearance at LPPT

Post by SHaneD » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:03 am

Quickest way to check for strange atp files will be for me to remove all custom scenery and only leave LPPT in place, here are my results with the default LPPT, I'm still seeing the same tower and delivery frequency's and when I get o the holding point and ask for takeoff clearance, I don't get it & 124th jumps straight to asking for readback for a clearance I've not had, I'm also running under Steam so don't have the installer to reinstall the European scenery.
default airport no clearance given.jpg
default LPPT.jpg
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SHaneD
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:26 pm

Re: Not getting takeoff clearance at LPPT

Post by SHaneD » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:22 am

Just tried with no custom airports in the custom scenery folder (X-Plane loads very quick!) but I'm still seeing the same frequencs for delivery and tower, going to try something different now, will let you know if I have any success

jgplarnold
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:22 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Not getting takeoff clearance at LPPT

Post by jgplarnold » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:10 pm

Shane,
I now notice that you are running XP10. I am running XP11 and don't see those frequencies.
In my humble opinion it would seem that the problem is coming from stock XP scenery (as you state the problem frequency remains even after removing all custom scenery and yes also PLUGINS have an effect on how quickly XP starts up - remove them and see what I mean).

I wonder if you can fix that by creating an APT.DAT file containing all the lines for the different ATC 'types' each with a unique frequency and adding that to the custom scenery fro LPPT. I can only assume that when XP encounters such data it uses it in place of any data from the stock scenery.
Only a thought but I cannot see anything else to try.
You could start by trying to do that with World Editor but making sure you only include COMMS frequencies - I am guessing here.

SHaneD
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:26 pm

Re: Not getting takeoff clearance at LPPT

Post by SHaneD » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:17 pm

I agree that the problem lies with the default airport, and I also think there's a something weird going on with the airport I downloaded! Because I've downloaded via WED another copy of LPPT (the one marked for 10.50) and using it I'm now I'm seeing the frequencys I need to see, and I even got cleared for takeoff!
step in the right direction.jpg
with this I now see the correct frequencys
now have clearance.jpg
and now I have the clearance I've been looking for

Lesson learnt, don't trust anybody else's work! check it out first.
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jgplarnold
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:22 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Not getting takeoff clearance at LPPT

Post by jgplarnold » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:22 am

I seem to be totally lost regarding what you experienced and how you overcame the problem. I have never used WED and as such don't understand about " I've downloaded via WED another copy of LPPT (the one marked for 10.50)" . It appears to me that doing so resulted in an APT.DAT file which contains the correct frequencies which then 'override' the frequencies in the stock scenery.
Do I assume correctly that you are using XP 11 and not an earlier version? It just seems strange that I get the correct frequencies (using XP11) and you don't.
From an earlier post I assume you are using XP10.51. Is this correct? Have you tried using WED to import the stock LPPT airport and check the frequencies? I assume you can use WED to change frequencies (see below for actual frequencies used).

In any case if the plugin allowed for two or more ATC 'types' sharing the same frequency as they do at some airports in real life, then this would not have caused you a problem. I too encountered this problem using a custom scenery for YSCB ("YSCB Canberra International Airport 1.0" obtainable from the .ORG website) which has the same frequency for DELIVERY and GROUND. In this case the stock XP scenery doesn't have a DELIVERY frequency so there is no problem - just with the custom scenery.

Interestingly the frequencies from Skyvector (https://skyvector.com/airport/LPPT/Lisboa-Airport)and Open Nav (https://opennav.com/airport/LPPT/charts) are BOTH as follows
Delivery 118.50 and 118.95
Ground 118.50 and 121.75
Tower 118.50 and 118.10
So although all three have the same frequency (118.50) they all also have UNIQUE frequencies. This is what I would be using.

Also looking at the Jepperson Chart (http://www.pht-formation.fr/ops/SID%20S ... ibonne.pdfthey are
Delivery 118.95
Ground 121.75 and 118.95 marked as SECONDARY
Tower 118.10 and 118.95 marked as SECONDARY


Maybe the plugin could be changed? in a future update? Maybe not as sometimes it is difficult to program around things without causing problems elsewhere.

ntnll
Posts: 357
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 12:32 pm

Re: Not getting takeoff clearance at LPPT

Post by ntnll » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:42 am

Hi guys,
jgplarnold, thanks so much for your help, I really appreciate your desire to collaborate, that's should be the spirit of the forum, ask and also provide help when possible.

Shane, I'm quite busy fixing other bugs, but I'll definitely have a look to a fix. Unfortunately is not easy as it looks, but I'll give a try.
a.
124thATC Developer

jgplarnold
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:22 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Not getting takeoff clearance at LPPT

Post by jgplarnold » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:52 am

I got involved in this and thought I could assist as I experienced a similar problem with custom scenery for YSCB and thought that perhaps it could be solved as I did by modifying the APT.DAT.
It would be good for 124thATC to allow for duplicate frequencies but there is a work around by modifying the APT.DAT however that doesn't fix the problem for others.

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