ATC headings

NO SUPPORT HERE, just other discussions related to 124thATC
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tangodownNZ
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:42 am

ATC headings

Post by tangodownNZ »

Is there a way to have ATC running but not give me headings. I want to fly my GPS flight plan, which I have loading into 124th ATC flight plan. But it always gives me headings that take me away from my GPS track.
Also, when I choose Manually select SIDs and Stars it doesn't give me the option to manually select them. And when I select Look for SIDs and STARS it normally doesn't select the one I want.
tomkater68
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:56 pm

Re: ATC headings

Post by tomkater68 »

Hi,

the plugin looks for navdata in its own directory. Did you install navdata there?

( please refer https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Qcb ... 3cf7nhziz2 for further information ).

Michael
tangodownNZ
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:42 am

Re: ATC headings

Post by tangodownNZ »

Thanks very muchly @tomkater68
I assumed this is the CIFP folder located in X Plane 11/Custom Data

Thanks again
tangodownNZ
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:42 am

Re: ATC headings

Post by tangodownNZ »

Strange. It definitely helped putting the CIFP folder in the navdata folder of 124th. However. I now get a message saying
Navdata not found.
This plugin requires an ARINC 424 CIFP data folder, STAR/STAR function will not work. (It should say SID/STAR, but says STAR/STAR, but thats probably not important).
But I did copy the CIFP folder from my X Plane/Custom Data folder into my 124th navdata folder. Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to unpack the folder contents into navdata, and not just put the CIFP folder in navdata?
scooke
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: ATC headings

Post by scooke »

Hi,

It is not sufficient to only have the CIFP folder in the navdata folder of 124th.
You will also need to copy the 6 files that come with each AIRAC cycle as discussed here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3698&p=5285#p5285

Hope this helps,

Steve
tangodownNZ
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:42 am

Re: ATC headings

Post by tangodownNZ »

Thanks for that @scooke
So I have now pasted the 6 earth.dat files into my 124th navdata folder.
I checked out the link, but I'm more confused now.
The 124th instructions just say to copy the CIFP folder into the 124th navdata folder. But it seems that that is not the case now?
scooke
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: ATC headings

Post by scooke »

Hi,

I'm not sure which instructions you are referring to. But Section 3.8 - Navdata Installation of the manual shows what a correct installation of the navdata looks like. It only shows 3 "earth*.dat" files because in X-Plane 10, there were only 3 files.
In X-Plane 11, it became 6 files & the CIFP folder. So, if you have that, you're good to go.

Hope this helps,

Steve
tangodownNZ
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:42 am

Re: ATC headings

Post by tangodownNZ »

Oh right. Thank you very much!
tangodownNZ
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:42 am

Re: ATC headings

Post by tangodownNZ »

I have the CIFP folder pasted in the navdata folder along with the 6 earth.dat files. Am I supposed to unpack the CIFP folder into the navdata folder, so its only the .dat files?
Because 124th atc is not finding my sids and stars. It always gives me the wrong sids and stars, ones that are not in my flight plan. So the atc always wants me to take different sid or star route than the one on my flight plan.
There is an option to manually look up sids and stars, but if I check that box nothing happens, I don’t get the option to choose. Automatically look for sids and stars alway chooses the wrong ones.

It says not to put sids and stars into the route waypoints. So I’m stuck. Unless we can add sids and stars into the route. I will try that next to see what happens.
Why can we not tell 124th what sid and star we want. Because there are many different stars for one runway, so why does it assume which one you want?
scooke
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: ATC headings

Post by scooke »

Hi,

Yes, you should unpack the CIFP folder inside the navdata folder. You should end up with over 14,000 .dat files. It should be Plugin/124thATC/navdata/CIFP/.dat files.

When the flight plan is initially submitted, the plugin picks a runway & SID based on proximity of aircraft. You should just accept whichever SID/RWY is proposed. Then when the plugin does a readback, you'll have the opportunity to change the runway & the plugin will present the other SIDs .

For landing/arrival,, when the last waypoint is coming up before landing, the plugin will suggest a list of STARs for you to choose & a runway. But you have the opportunity to change it after the plugin has chosen 1 initially for you.

In order for this to work, you should always enable automatic SIDs/STARs & not manual option. SIDs/STARs are not specified in the flight plan because they are always subject to change due to weather, traffic etc.

Hope this helps,

Steve
tangodownNZ
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:42 am

Re: ATC headings

Post by tangodownNZ »

Thanks again Steve,

All my .dat files were in the 124thATC64/navdata directory. Initially I had the CIFP folder inside the navdata folder. Then when I added the 6 earth.dat files, I put those in the navdata folder, not inside the CIFP folder. Then when I thought there was a directory issue, I put all 14,000 files straight into the navdata folder. So no CIFP sub directory.
I have now updated all nav data using navigraph and added the CIFP folder to the navdata directory, and have all 14,000 files inside the CIFP folder.
Hopefully this resolves the issue. Its like an air crash investigation. "What were the events that lead to me not having the correct sids and stars, haha

What I don't get though is.

- We can choose many different sids and stars in the flight plan on the mcdu. So the one that we choose is the one the AP wants to follow. That has our decel point, as well as constraints and height profile. So we should be given the option to choose the sid and star from 124th atc. I do get the option to change the runway, yes, but not the sid or star.

- What is the manual option check box for then? Surly this should be for if we want to manually select our sids and stars because the automatic one might not choose the one we want.

I am happy to support this software. I know its not going to be perfect, thats why I think this feedback is worth while. I appreciate the support, it gives me confidence in the project.

UPDATE:

So when I put the 14,000 .dat files into the CIFP folder and have that folder at plugins/124thATC64/navdata/CIFP I get a message saying
"navdata not found. This plugin requires an ARINC 424 CIFP folder. SID/STAR search function will not work."

But when I empty the 14,000 .dat files into the plugins/124thATC64/navdata (no CIFP folder), directory it works. But I still get the wrong SID and STAR. It tells me to turn left out of Auckland instead of right to follow my GPS flight path. I know it would eventually get me there but its not the SID I have on my charts or loaded into my mcdu, nor is it the way the real planes fly out of Auckland to Wellington.

If we could somehow check what SID or STAR the program will use before we activate the flight plan to ATC we could use that sid/star instead so we can leave the aircraft in AP? The problem is not knowing what sid/star atc will give us?
scooke
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:36 pm

Re: ATC headings

Post by scooke »

Hi,

OK. So, let's take this in sequence.

I have the 6 files (as in a previous post) in the navdata folder & the CIFP folder containing the CIFP .dat files. But I never get any error messages. So I don't understand why/how you're getting "navdata not found...." message.

I don't know which aircraft you're using. But bear in mind that not all aircraft use the FMS that comes with X-Plane. Some payware aircraft have their own FMS which does not link up with this plugin.

When filing the flight plan, I have both "manual select" & "Look for" checked/ticked.
And as I described before, after inserting the flightplan, the plugin comes back with a RWY & a list of SIDs. At this stage, you just pick one & the plugin comes back with "Request IFR Clearance" which you just click on.

Now it comers back with 3 options: Readback, Say again, Other runway. This is now your one & only chance to pick the runway & SID as programmed into the FMS.

Similarly, as the aircraft approaches TOD, the plugin presents a list of STARs & RWY. Again, you pick one & wait for the Other runway option to come up & now you choose the STAR you want & the runway you want (or as entered into the FMS)

As to what SID/STAR the plugin will use, it picks one, probably the wrong one. But you have the opportunity to change it when filing the flightplan as described above.

I must say that I find it very strange that I'm using the same plugin & I'm not facing any of the issues/messages that you've come across. From my experience I would say that this is normally due to a basic misconfiguration somewhere.

Hope this helps,

Steve
tangodownNZ
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:42 am

Re: ATC headings

Post by tangodownNZ »

Thanks again Steve, very helpful.

I do get the option to change runways but I have never seen an option to change a sid or star.
Maybe having both manual & look up checked will do the trick. I will have a play around and report back.

FFA320 Ultimate

Glenn
tangodownNZ
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:42 am

Re: ATC headings

Post by tangodownNZ »

Yes! Selecting both automatic look up sids and stars, and manual select sids and stars check boxes done the trick. As soon as I checked both boxes I got the SIDs and STARS to choose from.
Its a little bit weird because you would think that you select one or the other not both?
Anyway I don't care, its working!

Thank you very much,

Glenn
tangodownNZ
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:42 am

Re: ATC headings

Post by tangodownNZ »

Hmmm, so ATC followed the SID path (pagla), I selected out of NZAA.

Then after I selected the STAR into NZWN (tpapa), I got “expect tpapa”, from atc. Then the next message was “turn around and go back to pagla”!

Something is not right with this?
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